ND Filters

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Digigenic

Guest
ND Filters...

ND Filters...

I use the internal ND filter on the Canon XL1, and from my experience of using that particular ND filter, which I've primarily used for toning down the intense exposure of mid-day exterior shooting, I've found that skin tones are slightly brushed looking, but are more deeply defined and accentuated by shadows because the darker colors, especially black will be much more saturated. Most colors for that matter have all pretty much been saturated, especially reds, and the neon colors, like orange, yellow, and green are really intensified. My personal preference for using the filter on exterior shots is to prevent overexposing the sky, which as a result gives me a noticeably bluer, and better defined clouds without any blow outs. Sometimes, blow out effects are cool, but when it isn't the desired effect, I simply apply the ND filter, manually adjusting iris and my shutter speed to aid in picking up more color definition. Hope that helps...
 
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Digigenic

Guest
Sorry, everything I've done so far has remained in an uncompressed Mini-DV tape format, with the exception of my transfers to VHS. I haven't done any quick-time conversions yet, but I intend to soon. My professor is good friends with Tommy Pallota, produces films with Richard Linklater, produced Slacker, Tape, Waking Life, and he needs a version transferable to disc to show to him, so hopefully by the end of the semester, or earliest, spring break, I'll have some quicktime clips to load onto the web, hopefully. Ideally, I should have my own site for my work to be viewed, but that won't happen for at least another 5 to 6 months, because I'm going to build the site myself, I have a bunch of still photography work to show off as well. At any rate, I'm sorry I didn't have any samples to send of my video work yet, but I expect something to develop soon.
 

Kim Welch

Senior Member
Staff member
Exposure

Let me know when you get something in a web friendly format and i will post it on this site if you like. Would you be interested in moderating some of these forums?
 
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Digigenic

Guest
I like helping others, but it's difficult for me to commit to anything outside of school at the moment...
Matter of fact, I should be studying for an exam right now, and for the next 2 weeks I'll be involved with a transition between completing and starting projects in my DV Class...
 

Boone

New member
ND's with the PD150

ND's with the PD150

I just shot a short on the Sony PD150 and I was asking because I was using both ND's on the camera. The picture still looks great. I've found that shoot ing between a 2 and a 4 you get the best picture. Hence the need for the ND's. Especially in the bright of Day. I got some great looking pictures.
 
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Digigenic

Guest
That's cool man, how do you like the PD150? I've tinkered with a VX2000, but I didn’t really get into it. That PD170 appears to be pretty nice as well, 1lux, same size chips, but I believe has slightly higher res, a wide-angle lens is now packaged with it too. Although, Sony still didn't have 24P or High Def capability, damn that Panasonic and JVC for spoiling us too soon! So what do you shoot, shorts, docs, special interest?
 

Boone

New member
I shoot shorts mostly I'm in the midst of producing a 35mm short, I shot a 16mm short earlier in the year, and I have countles PD150 projects both produced, directed, and DP.

I've used the JVC HD cam thats out and well to tell you the truth I think it sucks. Sure it's cool that it records in MPEG2 but it lags with any form of movement. And there is no way to monitor the audio. I'de rather use a PD150 than have to use that JVC bit again.
 
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Digigenic

Guest
Are most of your film projects done through school, or are they personal undertakings?
I kind of regret taking courses at school, my professor has a lot of connections, but he really doesn't teach anything, my tuition practically serves more as camera and editing rental fees than education.
I don't know, maybe that's how most schools are?

Anyhow, what kind of camera will you be using for your 35mm project? I’m interested because I've never actually worked with film, I’ve always been kind of intimidated by it. The acquisition, development, and maintenance processes have always appeared to be too risky, at least compared to DV? Did you hear about what happened recently to Oliver Stone and the final scenes of his film, Alexander? He lost them to poor handling, so now they have to go back out and re-shoot the final scenes again.

Anyhow, after the completion of your 35mm project do you intend to pull it though the digital intermediate process, like with Discreet’s Lustre or something similar? I can’t wait to shoot something on good quality film or high def just so I can see what can be done in an application like that.

Anyhow, I just hope Canon and/or Sony aren't left vulnerabe to the same low def spell as JVC. JVC’s introduction of that camera seemed a little premature, and there are many discontent videographers to show for it. The issue is that the same High Def Mpeg2 compression format has been agreed upon and signed off on by all of the major manufacturers, including Sony and Canon, so basically, everyone's stuff might end up with a similarly poor quality high def? I hope not…
 

Boone

New member
All of my film projects are school under takings.

I actually have learned a lot about making films. Not so much in the technical aspects but more so in the aspect of telling a good story.

I took cinematography last semester and I learned a lot about film. But most of my knowledge just came from working with it. I have a lot of great connections though so my processing and telecine (the process of transfering film to video) were free. I also got a discount on film stock. So although I can make shorts for dirt cheap it still costs while shooting on DV is pretty much free.

I'm not sure what camera we are using yet. We are shooting this weekend so I'll give you the low down on how it went. I'm not directing this one so me and the DP haven't talked extensively. I don't think it will be pulled through the DI (digital intermidiate) I don't have the software to do digital grading and wouldn't even know how to do it if I did have it. Also I don't think I could get that done for free.

Whats weird about going to Film from DV is that you can't see what your end product is going to look like on set. With DV you automatically see what your stuff is going to look like. With film you have to trust your light meter and DP. I think that's what makes film such a different medium from DV and why a lot are intimidated by it. But the cool thing about it is that it's easy to learn and there are a lot of people out there who are willing to help out for free. Well at least in LA. I don't know where you live.
 
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Digigenic

Guest
Yeah, I can imagine the benefits of living in the entertainment vortex where filmmaking is embraced as a way of life. I'm in Houston, TX, but I might be moving to Austin to attend UT and their burnt orange program with RKO studios, so hopefully by next fall I'll be in better hands? Have you submitted any of your work to any particular festival, contest, or venue? With the exception of our school's first little “New Media Fest” last semester where I exhibited my first project, which was a 20 minute non-sync experimental piece, I haven't shown any of my work anywhere. But yeah, that'd be great if you could keep me posted on the developments of your project, I'd really like that, and I'll do the same if anything of substance develops here…
 
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Kevin_Zanit

Guest
With heaver NDs you can tend to get a slight magenta/ yellow/ brown color shift.

This is why I use Pancros. These are essentially one way mirrors, with different grades that transmit or reflect.

The problem with these are that they MUST be placed mirror side out, and that because they are essentially mirrors it can freak the actor out a bit seeing themselves. Also, I have had problems with reflections off of the mirror coming into the frame. But if this is happening, odds are you need a lenser.


Kevin Zanit
 

scubba

New member
this is true, glass NDs however should cut down the color ratios equally therefore not affecting the color saturation at all and only minimising the light levels according to their strengths (3/6/9). however on some lenses, as i heard from colleagues, especially video lenses that have been made to fit on filmcameramounts, hue shifts have been reported when using a high f stop, thus stopping down the lens too far. this is partly because of the poor resolving power of the lens above a certain given f stop. Also if the galss pieces inside the lens are not fully collimated the reflecting light that bounces off the pieces might filtrate the light spectrum in a different way than you want it, thus leaving the high power blue/ cyan casts pass the lens emore easily than the reds at the low end.
But if the lens is well collimated, the mount is reliably fixed and the glass ND is sitting straight on you should be fine even when shooting right into direct light and aiming for flares (on zooms).
 
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Kevin_Zanit

Guest
The color shift I am talking about has happens to me with everything from Mini DV cameras, or in the matte box in front of a Panaflex fitted with Primo primes.

Its simply the color of the filter in heavier strengths coming through.

Heres a quote from Caleb Deschanel, ASC

"When you go to N.9 in ordinary filters [non-pancros], you will get a certain amount of yellow, which you will not get with a Pancro."

I have observed this issue myself.


Kevin Zanit
 
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